I’m haunted by the new video and song, Trash a solo venture for Neon Trees leader singer Tyler Glenn.
Tyler Glenn was raised LDS, served a mission, and had previously brought positive publicity to the LDS church.  In 2014, he came out as being gay, but still expressed belief in the church and saw himself as sort of an ambassador for LDS to the gay community and thought he could make it work.
According to recent reports, he was very upset about the policy the church came out with last November affecting LDS children of a gay parent.  Apparently, this led him to research church history which led to him losing his belief in the church.
I participate in various forums online discussing LDS issues.  Exmormons congregate in some of these, and lately I have been surprised at the anger so many Exmormons have.  As a self-appointed defender of the faith, it sometimes makes me want to jump in and fight back, especially when I feel the claims are unfair (not to say they’re always unfair).  Inevitably, I’ll join in the snark and make an ass out of myself just like everyone else, and then regret doing so.  That’s not what my “online ministry” is about.  I’ve been thinking hard about how to build bridges between the Mo and Exmo community.  So, it was with this backdrop that I watched this video today.
In the video, Tyler sings angrily against the church.  He walks down a hallway with three “desecrated” (they’re upsetting to me and certainly will evoke emotion one way or the other) pictures of Joseph Smith and spits on one in anger.  He makes hand gestures that will offend active members of the church.  The chorus goes “one man’s trash is another man’s treasure”.  Apparently meaning the church is a treasure for some but trash for him.
At this point in the video, I felt sad but also a little on edge and defensive.
Then towards the end he repeats the line three times.

You keep throwing me out like
You keep throwing me out like
You keep throwing me out like

Followed again by the chorus line:

One man’s trash is another man’s treasure

Suddenly, the meaning is flipped, and I feel it’s as if he’s saying to the church “you threw me out like trash”.  As he sings this part he draws a red X on his forehead, the Mormon version of X for excommunication in place of the Scarlet A.  Where I just saw anger, I now saw pain.  Tears flowed down my cheek as that expression of pain really hit me in a deep place.
I’ve been haunted all day by this and decided to write up these thoughts as catharsis.
In the blog linked above, Scott Turley asked “Why are people choosing to leave their faith?” and highlighted the CES Letter and this example of Tyler Glenn.  A couple things I see in the case of Tyler Glenn.

  1. Policies towards LGBT’s left him feeling like the church was ostracizing him.  I do not oppose the church’s positions related to LGBT, but I do hope there could be a policy or doctrine change that could lead to more peace for the LGBT members in our church.


  1. When researching online history, he found facts about the church which led to his disbelief. The church is making progress in publicizing a more nuanced version of history.  I ask my brothers and sisters in the church to get on board and push that forward.  Maintaining the black and white, rigid views of scripture and history of our past is creating an environment where members feel too huge of a gap when they go online and read historical information compared to their understanding.

I love this church.  I believe in it.  The linked blog quotes Adam Miller.

Don’t ask the thin question: “Is the Church true?”  Ask the thick question: Is this the body of Christ? Is Christ manifest here? Is this thing alive?

Yes, yes, yes.  I believe that.  I experience it.  I hope we can help all members feels that and retain that.  But we should also recognize that some don’t experience that.  And when they leave, I hope we can maintain respect and love for each other.

  1. Do you oppose anything that the ‘brethren’ say? At what age should we start thinking for ourselves rather than being told what to think?

    I for one publicly oppose their LGBT stance.

    ~ Ben

    • I don’t oppose the brethren on anything. I believe the issues they deal with are very complex. Butterfly Effect kind of thing, you make a change here and you have an unintended consequence over there no one thought of. I think the leaders of the church are good, experienced men that are doing their best to lead the church according to what they perceive is God’s will and in a way that will help the members realize maximum benefit from association with the church. I believe issues like LGBT policies, gender equality, etc. weigh heavy on their minds, and I have hope they will lead the church forward in a way that will resolve all those issues in due time.

      • So, basically, you’re a yes man?

        C’mon Randall, you can do better than this! Can you imagine how it would feel to another genuine human being (another one of your brothers) who was born biologically/chemically different than you and the pain they must feel when they hear other human beings tell them that they’re somehow displeasing to God?

        Not knowing that they themselves are the supreme being in which they seek?

        For young people who grew up taking it literally and figuratively (like I did), until later I stumbled upon a missionaries journal that ended up changing my life for the better – forever. It’s questions have allowed me to be free at last from religion.

        How would we treat others if we knew that we had nothing to gain from anything other than our own personal accountability/growth and nothing more than the present moment? What if changing the future and the world both here and in the future were up to US by letting go of hurtful dogma and beliefs that no longer suit US?

        Would it really be so bad a thing to start loving, trusting and accepting others wholeheartedly without demanding they tow the line?

        What if we are GOD and the present moment we have in front of us right here and now were up to US to decide and we could choose if we want for it to be Heaven or Hell?

        Whoever told you that you had to be dead in order to be in Heaven???

        Is it the same people who are telling you that same sex attraction is an abomination unto God???

      • Have any of the leaders ever been gay? Have any of them ever had to feel what it feels like to be shunned and the pain from losing family members and not being able to communicate their true feelings in what should be a very safe environment/your own home???

        I could be wrong, but to me – God’s will to them seems blatantly obvious, Randall. It all comes down to money. 🙁

        Truth is, they see GOD every single day, but, fail to realize.

      • I want to tell you that I feel bad about letting my emotions get to me.

        It’s just, I don’t understand how you can tell people about your faith crisis and at the same time also convey that you don’t disagree with them about anything.

        I mean, I get it… You could end up losing your family if you were to express your true feelings and being who you really are.

        • It’s difficult for me to explain. There are things I disagree with the brethren on. I see a difference between disagreeing and opposing. I can disagree but still sustain and support.

          • I see…

            Did you ever read my email that I sent to you via Facebook containing a tiny portion of a discussion about where prophets come from between the missionary, Elder Ladd, and Cadeau?

      • Elder Oaks in his discourse ‘oposition in all things’ forgot to mention Alma’s Quote when he said, ‘The church has created a Stumbling Block for those who don’t belong to it’… The oposition does not just come from outside sources, but can also come from within the church– Isaiah speaks of ‘cleaning out the inner vessel’ and even Jesus is concerned about his leaders today, as he was in old times; Hebrew children of Gods Church in the Past were also warned, as Isaiah is warning our Leader today; we need to be more vigilant in our priesthood duties as Elders, to ‘watch over the church’ we do not need to change the ‘requirements’ to become ‘worthy members’ but we do not need to punish the children of parents who don’t live up to their standards. WHY are ‘ONLY’ the children of ‘GAY’ unions being punished?? Why not children of parents who Smoke, Drink, Eat too many doughnuts, Swear or even have kids outside of marriage, or any other sin?? Why are we ‘Segragating’ only sins of the gay? Every other child should have the same punishment when their parents aren’t perfect either???

  2. It is easy to become defensive when anyone attacks or criticizes the church. It is much harder to have empathy; to stand in that person’s shoes and feel their pain. The pain felt by our LGBT brothers and sisters are feeling is very real. Thank you for taking the harder path.

  3. I find it interesting you separate anger and pain like it’s two different things that doesn’t coexist. The other thing that gets me is that it seems you don’t understand the anger and pain. Hopefully I can help you out a little on that understanding.

    If you could, take a moment and ponder how you would feel if something so big and true came out where you couldn’t help but deny your faith. Something so big that it couldn’t be argued and the church couldn’t defend itself. Think of how you would feel knowing your whole life has been built on a lie. Something you put all you heart and belief in. Something you have worked tirelessly within, that you promote and defend with every once of your heart. Think of how you would feel knowing all that you have worked for, believed in, and the belief in the promise of the future was all a lie.

    Would you not be really hurt? Would you also not be extremely angry? So many in your religion are so scared to learn anything about their religion outside of the church regardless of how truthful the information is that would expose some lies. They quickly ignore it and quickly deem it to be false and/or an attempt to destroy the church when some of it is just history. Why do you think that is? No one wants something they love so dearly and work so much for to be a lie. It’s like being madly in love to someone for 20+ years, where you have a family, a house, memories, and a plan for the future. You are ready to be with them for the rest of your life but then you find out they have been lying to you the whole time. That they never loved you, that they have been dating other people, involved in things you always opposed, and just used you. You would be crushed, and you would be angry. Not only to that person but yourself.

    Yes, there are a lot of exmormons that are angry and in pain. They will attack and fight the church. If you saw the person you loved that lied all those years with someone else, would you not want to warn that other person to get out of there? Would you not want to expose the person that lied to you so others don’t have to feel what you felt, or to deal with the lie before it grows and they invest more? These people are very hurt. Really look at the psychology. I was a convert and left so it was a bit easier for me to deal with the lie and I’m still a little hurt and angry.

    I don’t have any desire to destroy the church but I would like everyone in that church to know everything about their history and the operations of the church. I believe they all deserve the truth and they can choose whether to stay or go. They just need to know.

    What I find odd is how many people don’t even read the essays the church has published on their official site where they are openly admitting they have lied and taught people incorrectly on the history. It’s not like this stuff was just discovered. They have known this stuff for a very long time and have willingly suppressed the information till now. It makes sense to start trying to release it because the information can be controlled now with us being in the Information Age and anyone can find truth much easily than before. They can find it and back it up with evidence, references and so on.

    The thing that gets me talking to my Mormon friends is their view on exmormons and this idea that they always never truly believed or weren’t very strong in faith, dedication, and so on. The idea the anger is based of some evil aspect that has always been there or they allowed to be there by not being faithful enough. That couldn’t be further from the truth. Too many members don’t take time to really consider how they would feel if they found out their religion isn’t true. If you really want to bridge the exmormons and the Mormons, you have to take time to understand why the exmormons feel and do the things they do. After that, you have to fight for them and share that feeling to other Mormons.

    If the truth never has anything to hide and is always going to prevail of falsity, why tell your members to run from anything negative or opposite to what they teach? Why excommunicate those that ask questions? Why run from those that challenge the beliefs? If truth will always prevail when challenged why are the leaders so hell bent on their members not questioning, or challenging their faiths and encouraging them to only listen them and nothing else? Blind following is dangerous and telling people to do so is what people do when they have something to hide.

    • Good comment. Actually I do know very well the anger. I mention on other pages throughout this site how I went through a faith crisis about 10 years ago where I lost literal belief in the church and went through a very angry phase. I still pops out sometimes. So I get it.

  4. I think when Pres. Uchtdorf gave his talk a few years ago, (about the church making mistakes) we still fail to read between the lines and realize that yes, we’re going to screw things up. We’re going to hurt people. Some people will be treated unfairly, cast out, treated like trash as Tyler says. This happens – our own leaders are acknowledging it.

    You can believe that the church is ‘true’ and still grieve over people wronged by its members, or even its leaders. I believe that you can wholeheartedly sustain the leadership of the church while still not agreeing with all of its policies – or even liking some of your leaders. I think we’re supposed to struggle; we’re not supposed to have every answer handed to us, and neither are our leaders.

    So yes, I believe our opinions count. I personally disagree with many of our LGBT policies. We’ve hurt and rejected a lot of people. For some reason God (who I do believe directs the church) is letting us figure much of this out on our own right now. He’s letting us make mistakes and stumble around. I will try to be compassionate to our leaders and give them the benefit of the doubt, but if I feel a policy violates christian principles, there should be a space to share and discuss those feelings. Some wards invite that discussion and others are terrified of it.

    • So you believe leaders can make mistakes and God doesn’t care? So what about the racial doctrines the church used to teach? Do you really think God is okay withe the idea of his prophets saying that blacks are born with the curse of Cain which is why they are ineligible for the priesthood and say it was from God?

      Ask yourself this: Did you ever like it in your life when someone told someone else something you said that was… made up? Because that is what the racists doctrines were. They were made up.

      The fact is, racial doctrines still exist. It’s right there in the Book of Mormon:

      2 Nephi 5:21:

      21 And he had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people, the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them.

      Alma 3:6:

      6 And the skins of the Lamanites were dark, according to the mark which was set upon their fathers, which was a curse upon them because of their transgression and their rebellion against their brethren, who consisted of Nephi, Jacob and Joseph, and Sam, who were just and holy men.


      So what happens when you repent and become righteous?

      3 Nephi 2:14-16:

      14 And it came to pass that those Lamanites who had united with the Nephites were numbered among the Nephites;

      15 And their curse was taken from them, and their skin became white like unto the Nephites;

      16 And their young men and their daughters became exceedingly fair, and they were numbered among the Nephites, and were called Nephites. And thus ended the thirteenth year.


      These racist statements are still in the Pearl of Great Price:


      Moses 7:8:

      8 For behold, the Lord shall curse the land with much heat, and the barrenness thereof shall go forth forever; and there was a blackness came upon all the children of Canaan, that they were despised among all people.

      Moses 7:22:

      22 And Enoch also beheld the residue of the people which were the sons of Adam; and they were a mixture of all the seed of Adam save it was the seed of Cain, for the seed of Cain were black, and had not place among them.

      Abraham 1:21-24,27:

      21 Now this king of Egypt was a descendant from the loins of Ham, and was a partaker of the blood of the Canaanites by birth.

      22 From this descent sprang all the Egyptians, and thus the blood of the Canaanites was preserved in the land.

      23 The land of Egypt being first discovered by a woman, who was the daughter of Ham, and the daughter of Egyptus, which in the Chaldean signifies Egypt, which signifies that which is forbidden;

      24 When this woman discovered the land it was under water, who afterward settled her sons in it; and thus, from Ham, sprang that race which preserved the curse in the land.

      27 Now, Pharaoh being of that lineage by which he could not have the right of Priesthood, notwithstanding the Pharaohs would fain claim it from Noah, through Ham, therefore my father was led away by their idolatry;


      Then in late 2013, the church released the ‘Race and the Priesthood Essay’:


      Here are some key quotes from the essay:

      ‘Following the death of Brigham Young, subsequent Church presidents restricted blacks from receiving the temple endowment or being married in the temple. Over time, Church leaders and members advanced many theories to explain the priesthood and temple restrictions. None of these explanations is accepted today as the official doctrine of the Church.’

      ‘According to one view, which had been promulgated in the United States from at least the 1730s, blacks descended from the same lineage as the biblical Cain, who slew his brother Abel. Those who accepted this view believed that God’s “curse” on Cain was the mark of a dark skin. Black servitude was sometimes viewed as a second curse placed upon Noah’s grandson Canaan as a result of Ham’s indiscretion toward his father. Although slavery was not a significant factor in Utah’s economy and was soon abolished, the restriction on priesthood ordinations remained.’

      ‘The curse of Cain was often put forward as justification for the priesthood and temple restrictions. Around the turn of the century, another explanation gained currency: blacks were said to have been less than fully valiant in the premortal battle against Lucifer and, as a consequence, were restricted from priesthood and temple blessings.’

      ‘Today, the Church disavows the theories advanced in the past that black skin is a sign of divine disfavor or curse, or that it reflects unrighteous actions in a premortal life; that mixed-race marriages are a sin; or that blacks or people of any other race or ethnicity are inferior in any way to anyone else. Church leaders today unequivocally condemn all racism, past and present, in any form.’


      Right then and there the essay throws Mormon prophets Brigham Young to Spencer W. Kimball along with the Book of Mormon and Pearl of Great Price under the bus. But here lies another problem. Look at what Wilford Woodruff said as a ‘Prophet of God’ when he released ‘The Manifesto’ ending polygamy in 1890:


      ‘I say to Israel, the Lord will never permit me or any other man who stands as president of this Church to lead you astray. It is not in the program. It is not in the mind of God. If I were to attempt that the Lord would remove me out of my place, and so he will any other man who attempts to lead the children of men astray from the oracles of God and from their duty.’



      So how can these men be called prophets of God when they have been leading its members astray and yet the Lord does nothing about it even though Woodruff claimed that wasn’t the case?

      • I’ll tell you how but, you may not like the answer.

        Truth be told the business leaders of the church today realize …behind closed doors (although, you’ll never hear it from them) that – God is all of us. WE ARE GODS!

        The concept of an unforseen being floating around up there in the sky is the perfect scapegoat (and analogy they want you to think they think) because, if/when they lead you astray, (they’re doing it even as we discuss this) ALL they have to say is ‘take it up with God…’ And that casts the blame on to an unforeseen entity.

        The perfect scheme if you think about it.

        (The REAL wolves in sheep’s/Sunday clothing are very carefully programming your minds with well-thought-out letters and, those who haven’t read 2 are falling for it – to control and get richer off of you – hook, line and sinker.)

        The God you seek is YOU!
        Wake up, people

        The bottom line is that these ‘leaders/so called church’ you keep trying to defend have lifted themselves up from the lives of many good hearted people and, as it stands they never have to work again a day in their lives. Neither do their great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great grandchildren. All they have to do is enjoy your hard earned money and sit comfortably with armed guards in their ivory towers and continue carefully worded essays/phamplets/conferences to control you.

        But don’t take my word for it. Read 2 by Evan Lord…….

          • I did, Naomi.

            I changed it to freedom, thinking for myself, asking deeper questions, creating meaningful relationships and not taking advantage of them by convincing myself that I’ll have the eternities to make things right and, also taking accountability for how I treat people with this precious, one life we have right here.

            No longer are my words, thoughts and actions dependent on me sounding like a puppet, seduced with the guilt and beliefs and attitudes of others.

          • Nobody *really* thinks for themselves. No thoughts are original enough to be truly autonomous. You do sound like a puppet. Just a different one than the one you may have been before. But there’s nothing wrong with that. I just think it’s annoying that you come on this blog to preach your flavor of Kool Aid to others while not recognizing that you’re no better than anyone else trying to push their Kool Aid down people’s throats. Your words drip with disingenuity. I don’t share the OP’s views, at least his views are thoughtful. And he’s honest about his agenda.

          • Genuity is in the novel. I’m not writing a book. I’m out working.

            I’m just here to tell people that the brethren have been caught in a lie and the evidence is damning. They’ve been taking advantage of everyone for their own personal gain.

            It’s up to us what we wanna do with the proof. We can warn other people or we can keep silent while they quote riddle after riddle of long, confusing scriptures that no longer make sense or stand when considering the evidence.

            For me, personally, it’s simple.



          • Naomi,

            First of all, you have absolutely no idea as to the kind of person that I am.

            Secondly, at least my beliefs can be supported.

            Thirdly, instead of trying to attack my mood or character, why not consider the issue at hand???

            You’re here, WE are here and this God that every talks about is where???

            Is it REALLY that big of a stretch to wonder what if this is it?

          • I’m out on the road away from family and friends because I have to work for my money.

            I don’t have tithing settlements coming in where I don’t have to show accountability for the way I spend people’s money.

            Do you have any idea how much those properties cost? And yet, they magically spring up at no cost to the church. Why? How?

            I’m out here working for a living. I suppose if I didn’t have integrity, I’d become an LDS prophet and never have to work again because members would pay for me and my family to live a free life.

          • It is when we ‘share’ our opinions and views that we come to a better, more clear understanding of how to help in these kind of issues

  5. One man’s trash is another man’s treasure.

    Yes. There is the layer that he now has a complicated relationship with the church, what was once a treasure now seems like garbage. There is also the obvious implication that he who is a treasure to God (who LDS Theology says is an exalted man) is now trash in the eyes of the men of the church.

    As an alt-mo let me add that another precarious relationship that former mormons have to navigate is with ‘the world.’ When you leave, n
    on-mormons tend to be even more intolerant than TBMs to alt-mos maintaining any kind of positive relationship with our Mormon heritage and upbringings. They want a complete divorce which is of course not realistic. In this scenario, our familial and cultural ties to Mormonism are trash to the outside world and still to a certain degree a treasure to us. Very few people are bitter enough to see the whole experience as a loss. Part of the healing process is recognizing what you like and love about your Mormon upbringing. For instance, I struggle with the idea that the BoM is literal history, but I still find its moral messages of kindness, service, community, charity, love, and communitarianism to be guiding lights in my life. I still read it and love it. Some people who don’t understand that would see it as trash, even though its still a treasure to me.

    I think the Rolling Stone article missed that nuance which can be summed up by the lyrics ‘We got history’ and ‘I think of you whenever I see fire in the sky.’ He still cares deeply about this organization and the people behind it. ‘Water never turns to wine, i’ve been drinking overtime’ and ‘Your friends think I’m a freak’ demonstrate that he is mourning some serious rejection and loss.

    ‘If you wanted me to stay, I’d repent my days away.’

    This song is ultimately about an abusive relationship with an organization and people he still loves very much. I don’t think people on either side of the isle should see this song as an attack on the church. He just expressed a period of grief and anger that all of us experience during a faith crisis no matter how large or small, and the pulls and tugs that we all experience within the church and from the outside world.

  6. Kimberly Watson Smith

    You sound like you are trying to sympathize with Mr. Glenn who has come out in open rebellion against the Church. This was a dark, evil, and incredibly offensive video. He is mocking the most sacred parts of God and his Church. President Nelson publicly declared that the policy regarding children in same-sex house holds was received through direct revelation to the Prophet. If anyone has a testimony of Christ and his Church and this policy is causing them to question or doubt, they need to spend times on their knees in secret prayer and mighty supplication for help understanding instead of writing blog posts declaring the church is true on one hand and then stating that they think policies are hurting people on the other hand. no man can serve to masters.

    • That ‘revelation’ regarding same sex couple’s children is in violation of many LDS scriptures. Let’s look at a few:

      Luke 18:16:

      16 But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.

      Matthew 18:5-6:

      5 And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me.

      6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

      Moses 6:54:

      54 Hence came the saying abroad among the people, that the Son of God hath atoned for original guilt, wherein the sins of the parents cannot be answered upon the heads of the children, for they are whole from the foundation of the world.

      2 Nephi 26:33

      33 For none of these iniquities come of the Lord; for he doeth that which is good among the children of men; and he doeth nothing save it be plain unto the children of men; and he inviteth them all to come unto him and partake of his goodness; and he denieth none that come unto him, black and white, bond and free, male and female; and he remembereth the heathen; and all are alike unto God, both Jew and Gentile.

      2nd Article of Faith:

      We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam’s transgression.


      Tell me, how are these not violations?

      • Shem, your scipture knowledge is well harrowed and there are MORE of the articles of faith that are being overlooked by the twelve (Try 11 of them) besides that the twelve’s Spirit must be a different one than has revealednot only to me, but most of the scrptures written

    • How many revelations have they gotten right? How many have they gotten wrong? Do you know about the wrong ones???

      ‘We’re all prophets when we speak our truth.’ ~ Cadeau

    • When Elder Nelson ‘publicly’ annouced that God Revealed to President Monson, God’s declared will on ‘punishing’ children for their parents’ choices to practice ‘Same sex Relations’, and to withhold his ‘Restored’ blessings of Gospel and any priesthood or baptismal covenants and guidence of the Holy Ghost and not allow his ‘Little Children’ to enter the kingdom of god and the Rights to the Restored Gospel seems quite counter intuitive of God… Author of confusion? Also since Moroni Teaches us that we can know the Truth of ‘ALL THINGS’ why would that self same spirit Reveal Two different types of Messages? The Spirit tells me that this is not to ‘protect children’ but protect the Twelve from their RESPONSIBILITIES of their OWN Ignorance on this Issue, If God Revealed it to them, then GOD HIMSELF Realizes how ignorant they are too…. God knows they are not educated enough nor have enough spirit to understand this issue so GOD will deal with his little ones himself ‘Jesus is the keeper of the gate, he employeth No Servant There’

  7. From what I know of Tyler Glenn, which admittedly is not a lot, I think you’re right that the line ‘one man’s trash is another man’s treasure’ is intended to work both ways. He’s certainly not shying away from his own thoughts about the church, but he seems to be willing to accept that the church is meaningful for a lot of people…just not for him. Though he feels the church has thrown him away like trash and he feels that the church is trash, he also knows that both LGBT people and Mormonism are treasured in other circles.

  8. When he says ‘one mans trash is another mans treasure’ he’s speaking about how the church has treated him like trash and that to ‘another man’ his partner he is the treasure. Again Mormons making it all about them.

  9. highpriestinaspeedo

    Great blog, though I have a question. You say that you hope that a doctrine or policy could change so that LGBT could feel more accommodated. What would that change look like? I used to think there was a way forward for the church to resolve the LGBT problem due to the paucity of revelation regarding the creation of spirit children by exalted parents. The church had never, to my knowledge, made a definitive statement that this reproduction was sexual in nature. If anything, two beings with perfect physical bodies creating spirit children sexually didn’t make a lot of sense to me, so having it be done some other way would both seem more realistic and allow for the possibility of gays being sealed to each other in the temple someday.

    Then the church released its essay on Heavenly Mother where they declared pretty definitively that this procreative act is sexual in nature. That coupled with the claim from Russell M. Nelson that the November policy was in fact a revelation to President Monson makes it seem like the die is cast and the church will have difficulty walking it all back later, especially in this day and age where stuff on the Internet will last forever.

  10. I am thankful for the compassion of some believers regarding Tyler and this video. As an ex-mo, father of a gay son and father of the NT guitarist, I was not expecting this. Good on you. Art can be raw and visceral. That you, and others, recognize someone’s pain in a message that attacks you and yours is encouraging.

      • It is when we ‘share’ our opinions and views that we come to a better, more clear understanding of how to help in these kind of issues. Thank you for opening this discussion and keeping it alive; I Truly KNOW that neither GOD nor his son would implement a policy to try to punish children of their parents who chose to live an alternate lifestyle that is contrary to the principles of Jesus’ teachings, but God has specifically told us that there are ‘many mansions’ in his kingdom but not all kingdoms have the same glory. Some may not choose to ‘enjoy what they might enjoy’ (as it is stated in the D&C) but their children should not suffer the transgressions or their parents’ consequences. To change the policy of ‘God ‘that marriage is an institution for ‘bringing to pass the eternal life of man’ is only ONE of many phases of salvation, but pro-creation– without it there would be no ‘eternal lives’ to ‘bring to pass; Although many loving members of the sme sex preference can employ themselves in God’s service of saving souls, they will miss out on the pro-creation process that brings so much Joy and ‘Souls down to be saved’ Since our leaders do not understand the concept that ‘JESUS is the ‘keeper of the gate’ it shows insecure fear of their own faith.D&C 123 tells us of our imperitive Duty to bring these things to light… You are doing a service to all those who are mentioned in 123…

  11. A brilliant video that masterfully captures the pain, despair, betrayal and rage one feels when discovering their spiritual home since birth is nothing more than a house of lies! Thankfully the Mormon Church’s trash is now our treasure.

  12. I see a whole bunch of Mormons aren’t all too happy about the part where Tyler reveals the tokens. This brought back a flood of angry memories for me. Before I had first gone through the house of the Lord, I kept hearing about the ‘tokens’ that were only to be used in the temple. Also, when I was a kid, my family visited the Salt Lake visitors center multiple times. My favorite was the King Benjamin panorama and Moroni at the top of a hill. Anybody who is familiar will recall how awesome it was to see Moroni’s face come alive. This put ideas in my head that, understandably, a kid like me with underdeveloped gears in his brain, could concoct. I made a child like connection between Chuck ‘E’ Cheese and the visitors center. Now you can see why I was shocked and saddened, then subsequently angry, when I discovered that the ‘tokens’ were secret handshakes.

  13. ‘Progressing? From what you’ve told me, it doesn’t sound like anyone up there is progressing. They’re milling. God’s apparently stuck in his own prison of conformity along with countless multitudes of fellow inmates.’ I recoiled at his blasphemy. Cadeau responded by tapping me on the forehead w/ his middle finger. ‘Open your mind, young one. Open this eye. Put yourself into your own picture. Take a good look. When you picture your own life, your wants and wishes – your personality, desires and individual perspective – & lay it over the afterlife offered you by the enthroned God you’ve been taught to love and fear, is it an afterlife worth living for anyone involved? Does that work for you? To me it sounds like an equally endless hell for Father, Son, Holy Ghost, Mother Mary and Man – a fixed infinity of resolved riddles & answered questions. A cage for hamsters. We spent less than five minutes locked in your eternity & I already feel claustrophobic.’ – 

    ‘But we are rewarded for our obedience, Cadeau. Obedience is the highest law of Heaven.’ – ‘No,’ Cadeau countered sharply. ‘It is not. Obedience is the lowest form of manipulation, enslavement & social control ever devised. Obedience is the avowed enemy of man’s spiritual nature.’ – Something big snapped. I lashed out, roaring like a blinded bull. ‘Without obedience, we’re just pagans & savages, Cadeau. Certainly even you have to admit the natural man is an enemy to God. Without God in the mix it’s just non-stop sex & violence & lies & cheating & stealing. Anarchy. It’s attitudes like yours that are the enemy to God!’ I stared at him angrily, gulping air in spasms as I heaved. He puffed his cigar in silence as I gradually composed myself. If I could have gotten Proctor upright, this would have been the point of our departure. When Cadeau did speak, his words carried no memory of confrontation. ‘The natural Man has never been an enemy to GOD, Elder Ladd. The natural Man is eternally beautiful and infinitely worthy. He is pure and innocent. You’ll find no greater depth of compassion in the universe than exists within Mankind’s true nature. If the natural Man is an enemy to anyone, then He is enemy only to the organized systems of thought and behavior designed long ago to punish and distract His imagination – allowing the seeds of His slavery to be sewn & harvested.’ – ‘How is obeying the laws of God a form of slavery?’ I shouted. ‘Sin is what enslaves people, not obedience to the commandments that keep us safe from it.’ – ‘Yes. And who decides what is & isn’t sin? Who issues the commandments & edicts? The ingenious doctrines of Original Sin & Divine displeasure have delayed Mankind’s progress for unnecessary millennia on this world. The planets current masters learned from their father’s, father’s, fathers that to lay exclusive claim to God, is to achieve the highest ground there is on earth & in Heaven.

    Fear of God, love of God, duty to God, will of God, divine right – take your pick. God trumps love family, friends, sex, money, ideas, ideals, identity, politics, patriotism, even self-interest. That’s why the makers of religion have enforced their faith over the centuries at the edge of an axe. God is a marvelously efficient tool in the hands of the cynic because the cynic realizes that otherwise decent & peaceful people will enthusiastically commit unspeakable horrors for their God that no other inducement or force in the universe could possibly compel them to do. Is there a single, thoughtful reason you can provide why individuals w/ uncharitable intent wouldn’t be naturally attracted to such a bounty? Is there some moral or practical impediment to prevent the criminal mind from seizing & exploiting the lucrative, all-powerful & reliable business of faith? Has not the totality of religious history been written in blood, opportunism, & the suffering of innocent people?’ – ‘By their fruits,’ I protested, ‘Look at all the good churches do. I’ve spent my entire life w/ people who strive for higher ideals. Not out of a fear of God, but out of a deep & sincere love of Him.’ I sensed Cadeau might have several ways to rebut my point. But rather than bring up the Inquisition or indulgences, or the suppression & torture of heliocentrists like Galileo, Bruno & Copernicus, the man simply nodded. – ‘People are decent & good,’ he agreed, with a subtle turn at his lip. Then his expression tightened. ‘And very trusting. Tell a man he is born in sin, & that man will exhaust himself-body, mind, spirit & purse-in a desperate bid to repay the divine debt before the sands of his mortality run out.

    The makers of religion have done altruistic things for Mankind, but that hasn’t prevented the church from becoming the most efficient & lucrative protection racket on the planet.’ – ‘Protection racket?’ I screamed. ‘That’s organized crime like the mafia.’ – ‘Indeed. Pay or burn. Pray or burn. Submit or burn. Suppress or burn. Believe or burn. Bestow or burn. And the ranks of the God-fearing clog the bleachers for a glimpse at the death of the infidel. They jeer the scapegoat; the offering for their sins providing them a moment’s respite from their own self-condemnation . No, my friend. Fear, threat and violence could no more be the fruits of a loving, benevolent creator than olives could be the fruits of a fig tree. Fear is the tactic of the fearful. Corruption is the fruit of the corrupt. What could incorruptible GOD, the source of all creation & seed of universal power, possibly have to fear, lose or gain from any act or omission of mortal man on Planet Earth? It is men who fear men, Elder Ladd. The most fearful man in the kingdom is not the starving peasant or the prisoner scheduled for death at dawn’s first light. It’s the king. Tiny, weak, fearful men in power have used the greatest lie ever told to bring the family of Man under their yoke – & in the process have brought their own civilization to a very real prospect of collapse. This has not been done out of love. Men in power act out of a reckless, misguided & unnecessary fear for their own survival. The natural Man is not an enemy to GOD, Elder Ladd. The natural Man is only an enemy to the institutions profiting most from His blind, unexamined obedience. In this, both GOD & the natural Man share a common enemy in the pulpit, which preaches the doctrine of separateness from the divine & keeps Man ever distant from the simple realization of who & what He truly is.’ – ‘And who is that?’ I snapped. ‘Who & what am I, Cadeau? Truly?’ – He held my gaze as his expression warmed. ‘Thou art GOD, Elder Ladd.’               

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